Employee rights and snow chaos

Very interesting article. I have a question that's related, but the situation is a little different.

A relative of mine was told that she mustn't come into work, because they'd decided to close the office. She explained that she could make it in (she lives nearby) and reminded her manager that she is a key holder for the building, but she was told it was irrelevant and that she should stay at home. Unfortunately, they also said it would cost her a day's annual leave. As you can imagine, she's not impressed. Is her employer entitled to make her take annual leave even if the closure is the employer's decision and the employee was keen to come into work?

@Lee Thank you for your comment. Two questions in our FAQ series should be of interest here. First question: If an employer's business is closed because of, for example, flooding, is it obliged to pay its employees? And second question: Can an employer require its employees to take holiday at a particular time?

Sorry, the second link above doesn't seem to be working. here it is again: Can an employer require its employees to take holiday at a particular time?

That's really helpful. Thanks!

Useful advice - thank you, so the docking of pay is usually not permitted but what about the docking of holidays where an employee is unable to get into work because of the weather. Where might this policy stand on the permissable:moral sliding scale?

@Graeme Actually I'm not taking a position on the moral issues involved. My point is a purely legal one that in most cases (and depending on contract) it will be lawful for an employer not to pay employees who fail to report for work, even where the reason for that failure is bad weather conditions that are beyond the employee's control. From an employee's point of view, I can can see how that could be perceived as unfair. From an employer's point of view, I can also see the argument that you pay employees for working not for staying at home. The law on requiring employees to take holiday on certain dates is summarised in the XpertHR FAQ quoted in my comment above.

I too have a similar problem to the person above. I work for a large charity and was told on 3 or 4 occasions during the bad snow that we had, that the place of work was not opening. I live very local to my place of work and was willing to go in. I have now been told that I must either forfiet my holiday pay or go into negative lieu time which must then be made up. The closing of the workplace was not my choice but that of my superiors. I would be grateful for some comments please.

@Soo If an employer temporarily has to close its business premises at short notice because of unforeseen circumstances such as snow fall, and there is no work available for its employees as a result, this will result in a period of lay-off. Unless there is a contractual right to lay employees off without pay, or employees expressly consent to being laid off without pay, they will be entitled to receive their normal pay for the duration of the lay-off. For more on this, see our FAQ on the issue.

I was told yesterday that I would have to take annual leave if I didn't go in due to snow today. Now we have 5 inches of snow, no trains and everyone is abandoning their cars all over the place. I live quite a way from work so there's no way I can get in. I can see why the company has done this to stop people blagging days off work but I genuinely can't get in. Can they actually take annual leave off me for this?

@Simon Employers can require workers to take leave at a particular time, as long as they give sufficient notice - see details here. As I explain in the main post, there is no obligation on employers to pay employees who do not report for work, unless the contract specifies otherwise.

I work as a support worker my work is 28 miles away from were i live and have to rely on public transport to get me to and from work.I worked christmas eve and christmas day.Because there was no public transport to get me to work on christmas day i stayed over at my work.christmas night i had to pay for a taxi home which cost me £80..I would like to know who's responsable for getting me to and from work on christmas day,as my last employer used to pick us up or pay for our taxi home..

I have a similar situation with my employer, they have closed 2 hours early today & have informed us that we will have to make up the hours another day, or take this as lieu time. It's their decision to close, I would be happy to stay and work but am not being given the choice. Can they force me to make up the hours or deduct them from my lieu? Thanks.

@Shona This would depend on your contract of employment. There isn't any general obligation for employers to arrange transport to/from work, even where the journey is out of normal working hours.

@Henry Where the employer closes the workplace because of severe weather, and there is no work for the employee to do, this results in a period of lay off. How lay off is handled will depend on your contract of employment. For more on this, see this question: If an employer's business is closed because of, for example, flooding, is it obliged to pay its employees?

I am a social worker and have been told I have the following options: to use a day of flexi-time, to use a day annual leave or to report that I am unable to work and have pay deducted.

I have worked from home on the Council's intranet site which has repeatedly broken down all day and I have finally given up. I am still available on the phone to any of my clients and to any of my colleagues.

In the meantime I have made the rounds to my elderly neighbours to offer hot soup and to check they are okay.

I live on the edge of a small town and we don't get gritted AT ALL.

As the same is forecast for most of next week does this mean I have to take a whole week of annual leave or be penalised and not get paid?

Not happy here at all....

I havent been able to get into work since Monday due to the fact I have two children Aged 11 and 9 whose schools have shut in the bad weather. I havent got anyone else that is able to look after my children and they are too young for me to leave them home alone. I have kept my employer informed of the situation everyday and offered to work from home if somebody can get the neccessary paperwork to me. Where do I stand legally on this matter? Im aware that my employer has no obligation to pay me but im more concerned about the disciplinary aspect of this.
Could I be subject to a disciplinary warning for taking time off with my children? Or even worse - dismissed from my job??

Here's a query from a different side.

I run a small childcare business from home. My assistant used to live over the road from my house but has since moved around 15 miles away. On Tuesday night before the snow got too bad I asked her if she could either stay over at my house which she has done before or stop at her parents house just around the corner but she refused both options and, as a result, did not come in to work on Wednesday as she was stuck at home. She also refused to come in today either by her own transport or public transport (in fact giving 2 different reasons why she cannot come in - snow and then later, illness) even though I know that other people who live close to her managed to get into their own places of work without any problems. She has also called in to say she may still be ill tomorrow so is not coming in until later in the day (if at all).

Do I have any rights on this and/or can I issue warning(s) for her lack of attendance and refusal to attempt to get in to work?

@Margerita @Gill I certainly appreciate that people who cannot report for work as usual through no fault of their own (school closed, travel impossible etc) can feel badly treated if their employer fails to take an understanding approach to their circumstances. I believe that it is good practice for a reasonable employer to take an understanding approach. I'm afraid I can't offer advice about your particular circumstances but you might like to look at the following sites for further information - Worksmart - your rights at work and Citizens Advice Bureau - employment Good luck.

My neightbour told me that a law/Act was passed in 1996 that stated if any parent with a child, that is of school age, is entitled to full pay if the school closes due to adverse weather conditions and there is no way of the parent getting to work because of this, is this correct? if so were can i get the info from for this.

@Rebecca No, your neighbour is wrong about that. There is no such law. The basic position in law is that wages are paid in return for work and if an employee does not report for work because of school closure, severe weather etc, unless there are specific contractual provisions to the contrary, they are not legally entitled to be paid. Of course an employer may decide to pay employees in these circumstances anyway (many do), or come to some other arrangement, such as taking annual leave, making up the time later or working at home. The situation is different where the employer closes the workplace, as discussed above. If you are looking for information on your rights at work, you might like to try the sites I link to in the comment above.

@Andrea Thanks for your question. I can't give you advice about your particular circumstances, but I would point out that, if you are considering disciplinary action, it is important to follow the guidelines set out in the Acas code of practice as employment tribunals will take the code into account when considering relevant cases.

Hi,

I am feeling exactly the same, i live 40 miles away from work, therefore do a 80 mile round trip every day.
Because of the heavy snow fall where I live (approx a foot), where as where I work they barely had an inch). I live on a fairly steep hill where the roads don't get cleared.
I could not make it into work yesterday - however have always had the attitude that if i can get in i would. With the weather warnings and the snow so thick, i decided not to go into work (yesterday, 7th jan 2010). The snow was still severe today 8th Jan, but i decided to try and get to work - which i did, with difficulty and putting my safety at risk.

I was then informed that i would either have to work my hours back, OR take annual leave. To which i felt under pressure to work the horus back as i already work full time and study part time on top of that (making my hours up for college work as my employer does not give me any time for study/course) - i am completing a 3 year masters degree. therefore it is impossible for me to work any more hours in the week.

i have now lost a day annual leaave because of this. I feel very aggrieved by this, as I could not have got if i wanted to.

I would appriciate some advice on this.
Thanks

@Anon Many employees feel aggrieved in circumstances similar to yours, but it is important to note that, subject to contract, there is no general obligation on employers to pay employees who do not report for work due to the snow. This means that employees and employers may find it preferable to come to some agreement about how to handle the situation - which may involve taking annual leave, making up the time or working at home where appropriate. See my new post on snow, pay and employee rights for further explanation.

This might help some people out whose work places have closed due to bad weather and were told not come in even though they could make it.....

From tribunal hearing a few years back it was agreed by the Panel that the employers obligation to pay salary is not negated by the obligation to provide work.......

i work in a private nursery which usually takes 20 mins by car. Tuesday i was sent home after 2 hours work amid the snow, as buses had stopped, conditions were worsening and i was driving home carefully. Wednesday i couldn't get my car out, either off the drive or street and it was forecast plenty more snow. There had been warnings not to venture out due to weather warnings and the risk of public transport stopping services again. I contacted a work member early morning before the nursery opened to say i couldnt get my car off the drive and couldnt get into nursery. They told me to get a bus, to which i replied i didn't want to be stuck at work with no way home should the buses stop, because warnings had said not to venture out for severe weather was on its way. I explained i felt this journey they suggested, totalling an hour of buses and walking was risking my safety but i would keep tryin to get my car out. The next day i managed to get into work, as the snow had settled slightly. Upon arriving at work i got a warning from my boss telling me it was unacceptable behaviour and that buses was no excuse because my boss would have drove me home. Had i known i was certain to have a way getting home i would have gone into work. I now lose a days pay, and more as i'm paid minimum wage and tuesday it cost me more in travel than i earned. I feel my boss yelled at me unneccessarily as i've always put my all into my job but that day i was scared for my safety. anything i can do?

this article contradicts itself..? firstly from the employees perspective which in a round about way says that pay cant be deducted (ish). then from the employers point of view saying that it can?

@Andy Wilde Yes, the article quotes two contradictory positions - one from the BBC website and one from XpertHR. It also says at the beginning that I believe the opinion expressed on the BBC website is wrong. In the first sentence I call the BBC's opinion "egregious tosh" which is just my rather pompous way of saying I think it is completely wrong.

@CJ I can't advise on what you should do in your particular circumstances. I would say in general terms that the current severe weather conditions call for understanding and flexibility from both employers and employees. You might be interested in an article published yesterday on the Citizens Advice Bureau website: What are your rights if you miss work due to the snow?

Hi!
Due to the snow my husband was informed that he must not go into work as they have no work, for 4 days last week, he works for a traffic management company. On arriving at work this morning he was informed that his wage next week will be nothing, they are not even allowing him to use his holidays, apparently he has not accured enough and hasnt given 2 weeks notice to take them.
Being a typical man and not wanting to stand up for himself, he left it at that and came home. I on the other hand cannot accept that as his wage is the only income we recieve and we do have 3 small children to feed and keep a roof over our heads. So i got him to go back to work and ask for a copy of his contract, he did this and came home with 1 sheet of paper, apparently from the contract which has a paragraph wrote on the bottom stating that he will recieve over 13 weeks - 5 days pay @ £21.50 each day if the company does not have work. Where this amount has come from i do not know because he is in fulltime employment working 40 hours a week and on the rate of £8.50. Basically he will be getting £101.08 as a wage, our only income to last 1 week, to feed and pay the rent which is i might add £100 per week. Is there anything i can do, any sort of crisis loan or something i can claim because i cannot see how we can survive on £1.08, there is 5 of us after all.

I can't find anything on freelancers and snow - eg I was running a workshops for which I had invoiced people. We ran the workshop as most of the schools were open (it was for educators).

Most could come, some couldn't and told us asap and others didn't bother. Many are saying they shouldn't pay as they couldn't get there or their schools were closed so they weren't at work but didn't tell us. What is reasonable - charge half in cancellation fee (the fee was very reasonable in the first place and we have trainers and venue costs nonetheless), nothing at all or the whole nine yards??

Hi there. I have been told by my employer that i now owe 38 hours in leiu time because of time off around work! I got to work on the 23rd Dec and was told by the acting person in charge (3rd in line, Manager & assistant on hols) that we would now be closed on 24th Dec, but i would still get my 9.5 hours pay.
On others occasions in January snow, i was in traffic for 2 hours counting. I was phoned and told that i have tried to get to work but there was no point, but i would still get paid for my hours. Since the snow has gone, i have now been told that i owe hours for the time i had off because of snow. Im not sure where i stand. I feel i have been let down by my company as i was quite willing to get to work and the only reason i wasn't in is becasue i hae been told i would still get paid. Could i have some advice on where i stand with this issue as 38 hours is alot of overtime! The person who told me i would get paid has since had a promotion and pay rise...!

Hi there,

I need some advice. I am going to be put through the disciplinary process as my bradford points have hit their first trigger point. I have worked for the company for 4-5 years and never had a problem with attendance etc. The reason for the bradford points triggering is that I could not attend work for two days during the snow and I commute 3 hours round trip by train. Can the company do this? It seems extremly unfair. I have no problem not being paid as I did not attend work. At no point did they offer to let me take holiday for the two days.

@morgan Sorry, we can't offer you advice about what you should do in your particular circumstances. If the Bradford points have automatically triggered the disciplinary process, I guess it may be that, as you seem to have a reasonable justification for your absence on these two days, this will count in your favour? Presumably the fact that a disciplinary process has been invoked doesn't mean that it will end with you facing a sanction.

Sorry to go off-track a bit but I do have a question

I currently get 8 weeks paid sick leave from my employer. 3 months ago I was in a car accident and was off work for 8 weeks. My employer paid me (as stated in my contract) and have asked my solicitors to claim back my wages. The problem is I have been ill and have been off work for 4 days, and they have stopped paying me sick pay. My manager has given me no notice that I wouldnt get paid. Is this right beause if I had known that I would not get paid I would have worked even though I was ill (bearing in mind the medication I was taking basically knocks me out and my employer knows this)
Thanks for your help

The BBC has just published this same article again in response to the latest snowfall, with the same inaccuracies. Note to self . . . the BBC is not the place to go for HR advice!

@Becky Quite right! The BBC is clearly not the place to go for HR and employment law information.

@Simon You're right, your comment is off topic. We can't advise you about what to do in your particular circumstances. A Citizens Advice Bureau may be able to help.

I am a van driver, driving for a small maintenace company we work from home and have our vans at home they have sent an email round stating that if we can't get into work due to the snow then we will not be paid even if we attempt to, the supervisors/managers have said that we are not classed at work untill we reach our first job although they pay us from when we leave our home could you tell me if this is correct

@Mark That is a good question. I can't give you advice about your particular circumstances, but I'm going to check with colleagues to see if there are any general principles that may shed light on situations such as the one you describe. We'll report back in the comments.

@Mark The answer is going to be the same as for many tricky employment law questions - it depends what your employment contract says. Even when the contract says nothing about this, it's arguable that, if an employee has always been paid from the time of leaving home, this is when he or she starts work - obviously as long as he or she is making a genuine effort to get to the job.

You would need to get some advice on your individual circumstances, taking into account the wording of your contract and how similar circumstances have been dealt with in the past, for example what happens if your vehicle breaks down on the way to a job, and whether you still get paid in those circumstances. If you're in a union, you could contact them, or a solicitor may be prepared to give you some free initial advice, or you could try the Citizens Advice Bureau or Community Legal Advice.

Hi, My husband was unable to get into work on the 1st, 2nd & 3rd due to snow, he works in domiciliary care on a nil hour contract. He rang in consistantly all days concerned, however on the Thursday the phone was continueously engaged, he had to sort out our heating which packed up and rang in late afternoon, although he had previously handed his calls back on the proviso that if he could make it in he would simply pick up hand backsand let them know before hand. Friday he left a message as the phones were unmanned. He went to work Monday, completed his shift picked up extra calls, then he contacted the office that pm about other salary non payment issues and they asked him to attend the office, which resulted in suspension for absence and not contacting the office thursday or Friday ( despite us having the phone bill to prove it). He is now facing disiplinary what are his rights? We read HSE edit re. severe weather employers cannot sack you for non attendance re. adverse weather conditions if your well being is put at risk, is this right.

hi i am a self employed groundworker and in this month i have only earned 8 shifts being sent home through snow and freezing tempretures i was told your a subbie and if you dont like it get lost find another job somewhere else the firm let some men work whilst others were told to stay at home even some of the men on p.a.y.e were laid off with no pay the boss showed no sympathy and refused to talk to the men ,it has created a division between them i have been in construction 30yrs and never experienced this before. the old men tell me 1963 was the worst. employers did the same then im in an industry with no future so it seems 2011 looks bleek